Just spotted this on Reuters. Any thoughts on what is being described as a violation of netiquette?
Brazil Internet Craze Angers English Speakers
By Alberto Alerigi
SAO PAULO, Brazil (Reuters) - Brazil has butted heads with the United States this year on issues ranging from cotton subsidies to the war in Iraq.
But perhaps none of the battles has been so personal as the one being fought on the Internet.
Thousands of Brazilians have become devotees of Orkut (http://www.orkut.com), a popular new social-networking site from Web search leader Google Inc.
Orkut allows members to organize themselves into online communities of friends, and friends of friends, to discuss everything from chess to sandwiches.
But the rush of Brazilians to join Orkut and rival social networking sites has upset some online users, who complain of a proliferation of messages posted in Portuguese, Brazil's native tongue.
Some users have even started communities specifically for people to air their gripes on this issue.
The United States has at least 153 million Internet users, compared with Brazil's 20 million. Still, Orkut said Brazilians dominated its membership roster in June, outnumbering Americans for the first time.
The site says it has more than 769,000 members, making it one of the largest and most popular of its type on the Internet. About 23.5 percent of the users are from the United States, while another 41.2 percent are Brazilians.
Iranians are a distant third place at about 6 percent.
SELECTIVE MEMBERSHIP
Orkut, named after Google software engineer Orkut Buyukkokten, made its debut in January and is still in the testing stages. Part of its allure is its exclusivity -- one can only join at the invitation of another member.
"Orkut maps one's social prestige, and Brazilians are by nature gregarious," said Beth Saad, a professor at the University of Sao Paulo's School of Communications and Arts.
Although more than one-fourth of Brazilians live in poverty, those who can afford Internet access have become avid Web surfers.
In terms of time spent on the Internet, Brazilians edged out the United States in May for the second month in a row, according to Ibope/NetRatings. The market researcher estimates that Internet use for Brazilians averaged 13 hours and 51 minutes in May, eight minutes more than for Americans.
The number of Brazilian visitors to community sites and online diaries rose 14.6 percent to 3.5 million in May from January, Ibope/NetRatings said.
Tammy Soldaat, a Canadian, got a sample of Brazilian wrath recently when she posted a message asking whether her community site on body piercing should be exclusive to people who speak English.
Brazilian Orkut users quickly labeled her a "nazi" and "xenophobe."
"After that I understood why everyone is complaining about these people, why they're being called the 'plague of Orkut,"' she said in a site called "Crazy Brazilian Invasion."
John Gibbs of Mountain View, California, has founded a community called "So many Brazilians on Orkut."
"When the average Orkut user goes to look at community listings to see what's out there, he'll see a list populated with pretty much all Portuguese communities," Gibbs said. "This is highly frustrating since Orkut is not a Brazilian service."
But Mateus Reis, a publicist who lives in Sao Paulo, said users should be free to write what they want, in the language of their choosing.
"Since we can invite anyone we want at Orkut, and my friends are Brazilians, it doesn't make sense talking to them in English," Reis said in Portuguese. "I use the language I know."
His compatriot Pablo Miyazawa has a more moderate view.
"Brazilians have the right to create anything they want in any language they want," Miyazawa said. "The problem is to invade forums with specific languages and write in Portuguese. Brazilians are still learning how to behave in the Net."
AN INTERNET FORCE
The Brazilians' ardor for the Internet extends to other community-based sites, and Web entrepreneurs are catching on to the potential business opportunities.
Lisa Kopp, spokeswoman for Orkut's competitor Friendster (http://www.friendster.com), said Brazilians are "an important group, with millions" of participants among its 7 million users.
Meanwhile, Brazilians account for nearly 211,000 of the 453,600 users of Fotolog (http://www.fotolog.net), which allows people to post a visual diary of their lives.
The site is negotiating with Internet providers in Brazil to offer a Portuguese-language version, said Adam Seifer, who founded Fotolog.
But Saad, the communications professor at University of Sao Paulo, said some of Brazil's exuberance about Orkut -- and the resulting clash of cultures -- is just another fad.
"I think what will happen is what occurred when the Web arrived in Brazil," she said. "There was a huge boom of people creating sites and now the number of active sites being used by Brazilians is a lot smaller than those registered."
July 18 2004, 01:17:25 UTC 7 years ago
I was invited in orkut by a brazilian friend of mine, and noticed immediatly how many messages your receive were in portugese. I then received an email from her on the issue. It was in portugese and I couldn't understand it.
She later explained me that:
"Sorry! That was for brazilian orkuters.
It all started because some dumb nationalist brazilians are having this fight with english posters. Some brazilians can be really obnoxious. They post in portuguese in international communities, and they think everybody has to understand them. So they started a campaing for more and more brazilians to join orkut, so brazilians would be majority and this way we would gain some previleges, like: the official language would be portuguese. hahahahaha
Then some people didnt like that and this guy (the email) is proposing that brazilians change their nationality on orkut, from Brazil to Argentina! So that brazilians would NOT be majority anymore and at the same time we would put Argentina on the orkut map! (nationalist brazilians dont like argentinians, and vice versa). I think this is a really funny oportunity to play with the concept of nationality, specially in the web, since the cyberspace is a place with no
borders, literally. "
The rest of the mail was personal.
Maybe communities should have written out the languages that are to be spoken.
Beside, as soon as China will be on the net strongly, things WILL change seriously.
Knowing English, Chinese, Arabic and Spanish would probably be a good idea.
July 18 2004, 01:56:32 UTC 7 years ago
i consider a violation of netiquette those remarks on "so many Brazilians" and "Orkut is not a Brazilian service". those who make such statements did not get the point of online communication.
technically speaking, livejournal is an 'american service' but one can find sizable communities in french, russian, spanish etc. most likely, brazilian too, did not check.
there are many 'communities' which have been launched in english but allow its members to talk there in whatever the language. well, there are some moderators who make a noise and even 'purge' non-english postings, but my feeling is they are exceptional in lj. any idea?
i also know a few communities where people 'talk pictures' to each other - look at
July 18 2004, 05:21:07 UTC 7 years ago
I don't have much sympathy with John Gibbs, though; Orkut itself is too big to be considered a community IMO (like Livejournal), it is one that has many sub-communities, many of which are going to be about things you're not interested in or just can't understand. No community has an obligation to be universally appropriate. They're specialised. Would a community about physics be obliged to explain every concept from base, because Orkut is not a science service?
On a UK board that I moderate, we've had a few posts in other languages, and the general route is (a) warn the poster that very few people can understand them, and if they continue to post entirely in other languages and nobody knows what they are talking about, (b) I'm afraid they get banned. There's a technical issue here too, in that it's impossible to moderate comments in a language you don't know. If no mods speak Spanish, how do we know that a Spanish poster isn't advertising penis pills or abusing other members? But complaining about Orkut having non-English communities is like complaining you sometimes get non-English websites from Google.
Pablo Miyazawa seems to have the most sensible view from the article.
July 18 2004, 07:14:40 UTC 7 years ago
This of course touches upon the issue of symbolic domination of English language online - an issue that often seemed overly inflated by cyberresearchers, but here we're starting to have real world effects.
There's a gigantic world out there, where people run communities, chat, discuss, have online sex and no online words get used and that's a fact some obviously have to face. A quote from Francesco Zappa might be useful here:
I have a message to deliver to the cute people of the world...if you're cute, or maybe you're beautiful...there's more of us UGLY MOTHERFUCKERS out there than you are!! So watch out.
July 18 2004, 08:41:57 UTC 7 years ago
BTW, "IMO" is not seen as a misspelling by LJ's spell check. Neither is "BTW". Have these become real words?
July 18 2004, 10:14:31 UTC 7 years ago
July 18 2004, 12:59:03 UTC 7 years ago
July 31 2004, 21:40:07 UTC 7 years ago
July 18 2004, 11:24:09 UTC 7 years ago
or the various indian languages, if it isn't already.
July 18 2004, 18:11:38 UTC 7 years ago
I think of this along the lines of tourists. If you're in a popular destination in another country with a foreign tongue, chances are many of the people you'll encounter also speak some English. However, if you make an effort to communicate with them in their native language, you'll get a lot more respect back. You shouldn't rule out trying to talk to someone based solely on the language they're speaking, and nor should you ignore their mother tongue just because they're already speaking your language.
July 19 2004, 17:58:52 UTC 7 years ago
I remember the STNE, when AOL finally allowed it's users to access Usenet. Totally, massively clueless users were posting things like "My modem is broken and I cannot reach the internet. Can you help me?" to completely random groups, often in violation of the group charters or traditions, and then, when they got flamed (which is what happens when, say, you post to alt.flame!) they were completely indignant. But what would have been no big deal if it had been one or two such posts a day was a very big deal when it was dozens or hundreds or thousands of such posts a day.
So I'm imagining the STNE -- with the added complexity of multiple languages and culture clashes. I can easily see someone posting "Hey, it's rude to post that here!" and it be taken as a comment about language or culture, when it's about there being extant community standards which are being ignored by the clueless.
Or maybe it's something else entirely; I just throw this out as an example to illustrate that things could be more complex than the article lets on.